Friday, March 19, 2010

Slavomacedonian male names of FYROM-Skopje

The Slavs begun arriving in the south Balkans sometime around the end of the 6th and the beginning of the seventh century AD.
A well orchestrated attempt is being propagated out of Skopje to portray the Slavic presence in Macedonia as eternal, going back to the ancient Macedonians, who were a Greek tribe, and to the Paionians who were an ethno-linguistic group akin to the Greeks. Their theory is that the Slavs are Macedonians, not the Slavomacedonians Slavs, and that the original Slavic homeland was not in the Pripjet marches of Byelorussia and Ukraine but in Macedonia. This, obviously has no bearing on history, archaeology and forensic linguistics and it makes a travesty out of everything that is commonly accepted by the academic community world wide.
A famous or infamous proponent of pseudomacedonism is Mr. Aleksandar Donski, a self proclaimed "professor of History". He has written numerous books or should we call them propaganda treatises, where his repeating motto is that the modern Slavomacedonians, the Slavonic speaking "Slavomakedonci" of FYROM are the autochthonous Macedonians who have saved in their language many of the names of the ancient Macedonians.
In a series of articles under the general title: "Macedonian names and MakeDONSKI pseudo-linguistics, we have time and again uncovered the faulty shallowness of these claims that cannot hold their own against any serious attempt to disprove them. Whenever History is replaced by propaganda, the people against whom propaganda is directed are on the losing side, intellectually and otherwise.
A crime has been committed against the people of the former Yugoslav Republic of Makedonija, a crime of the BIG LIE against their own self identity. This may sound like a harsh statement, but it is precise. What makes this BIG LIE more unacceptable is not that is merely portrays a false self image on the people of FYROM, which is bad enough in itself. What complicates the Macedonian name issue is that by adopting a false identity, the pseudomacedonian Skopjans want to elevate what was the fringe of the ancient Macedonian kingdom (and barely qualifies as Macedonian geographically and historically) and pass it as Macedonia proper, denying the Macedonian identity from the Macedonian Greeks who have all the reasons of history and language supporting them.
What is even more reprehensible is that by adopting a pseudo-Macedonian identity, the Skopians then turn and "demand" the liberation of the rest of "their" Macedonia. Irredentism, based on true or fake "historic rights" is what makes the volatile Balkans flare up into eruptions of hatred and killing from time to time. The use of Balkan ethnic hatred by "outsiders" as it happened during the 1990's break up of Yugoslavia, is what fuels the outlandish demands of Albanian Kossovar-Tetovar and Slavomacedonian-Skopian ultra-nationalism. They can see that "anything" is possible, even the capture of Thessaloniki, Greece's million strong, second largest city as a capital of a Slavonic "Makedonija".
In this light, pseudo-scientists in the pay of Skopian propaganda, characters of the type of Aleksandar Donski, Aristotel Tendov and Tome Boshevski among others, do not seem as ludicrous as they firstly appear, but their pseudo-macedonism takes on its truly sinister irredentist flavor.
In this article we will not try to disprove the alleged "Slavic" character of some ancient Greek or Thracian name in Donski's pseudo-Macedonian candy box. We will instead look at the true character of the modern Slavomacedonian male names and what they tell us about the true identity of the Slavic speaking inhabitants of FYROM.
In the 1996 "Orthodox Calendar", published by the Synod of the so called "Macedonian Orthodox Church" we find the following list of male names used in FYROM.
It is inappropriately misnamed (something to be expected in this misnamed country)
"Macedonian names of Biblical Origin". As we will show, there is very little "Macedonian" and very little "Biblical" in the names below.
What is a "Macedonian name? Are we to call Macedonian names the names that appear in ancient Macedonian history, after the Greek-speaking Macedonians conquered this land sometime around 800-750 BC? If this is a proper description, then Macedonian names, are all the names that appear in the literary, historical and epigraphical record of ancient Macedonia, since this is the Greek tribe that gave their name to this land. Over ninety five percent of these names are Greek, with some Paionian and some Thracian names appearing here and there. The vast majority of these names appear in every other dialect of Greek speaking areas around the Hellenic speaking world. Are the names Alexandros and Philippos and Aristoteles "Macedonian" names? While the most famous persons carrying these names are unquestionably Greeks of Macedonia, these names also appear as everyday Greek names in every other part of Greece, and the Hellenic speaking world and not only in Macedonia. Ptolemaios, Antiochos, Hephestion, Lysimachos are not names exclusive to the Hellenic-speaking Macedonians.
With the arrival of the Romans, initially and with the Slavs, the Albanians and the Turks in Macedonia much later on, their Latin, Slavonic, Albanian and Turkish or Arabic names arrive in Macedonia with them. Should these names now be re-named "Macedonian"? My position is that if we are to be scientific and precise then we must properly call these names "Roman, Slavic, Albanian or Turkish names common in Macedonia" at such and such time period.
The names of the ancient Macedonians were as Greek as any Peloponnesian, Thessalian, Ionian or Sicilian Greek name with some names being exclusively used in their dialect, which is something common to all other Greeks but also to all spoken and live languages around the world.
Biblical names, are names that appear in the bible, and as such are traditionally called the names that are Hebrew in origin. The New Testament, besides Hebrew has several Greek names and some Roman names too. Hebrew names start appearing in Macedonia with the arrival of Christianity in the first century AD and this is well documented in the funerary epigraphical record. This is also the time that the Thracian names start fading away and eventually they disappear by the 4th c AD with only ancient Greek and Christian (Greek, Latin and Hebrew) names surviving.
Let us now look into this list of names common among the Slavomakedonci and see how "Macedonian" they are. We classify these names according to the original linguistic pool from which they are derived.

A
Avakum Avram Adam Agapij Aleksandar
Alimpij Atanas Angel Angelarij Andon
Andrej Angjelko Antim Antonij Apostol
Ariton Arsenij Artemij Arhangle Atanasij
HB: Avakum, Avram/Abraham and Adam are indeed Biblical/Hebrew names (3/20).
LN: Andon and Antonij are Roman names, from Antonius (2/20).
GK: Agapij/Agapios, Aleksandar/Alexandros, Alimpij/olympios, Atanas/Athanasios, Angel/Aggelos, Angelarij/Angelos, Andrej/Andreas, Angjelko/Angelos, Antim/Antimachos, Apostol/Apostolos, Ariton/Ariston, Arsenij/Arsenios, Artemij/Artemios, Arhangle/Archangelos and Atanasij/Athanasios are all Greek names (15/20.

B
Blagoj Blagun Blazhe Bogatin Bogdan
Bogoja Bogoljub Bogomil Bogoslav Bozhidar
Bozhin Bojan Boris Boshko Branimir
Branslav Branko
SL: Blagoj, Blagun, Blazhe, Bogatin, Bogdan, Bogoja, Bogoljub, Bogomil, Bogoslav, Bozhidar, Bozhin, Bojan, Boris, Boshko, Branimir, Branslav, Branko are all Slavonic names, without exception (17/17).

V
Vangel Varnava Vasil Veljan Venijamin
Veselin Vidoe Vikentij Vladimir Vlastimir
HB: Venijamin/Benjamin and Varnava are indeed Biblical/Herbrew (2/10).
LN: Vikentij/Vikentius is Roman (1/10).
SL: Veljan, Veselin, Vidoe, Vladimir and Vlastimir are Slavonic names (5/10).
GK: Vangel/Evangelos, Vasil/Basileios are Greek (2/10).

G Gavril Georgij Gerasim Gligor Gligorij
Gorazd Goran Gorjan Goce Grigor
Grigorij Grozdan
HB: Gavril is Hebrew (1/12).
SL: Gorazd, Goran, Gorjan, Goce, Grozdan are Slavonic (5/12).
GK: Georgij/Georgios, Gerasim/Gerasimos, and Gligor, Gligorij, Grigor, Grigorij, all four of which are derived from Grigorios are Greek names (6/12).

D David Damaskin Damjan Danail Dejan
Deljan Despot Dimitar Dimitrij Diogen
Dobre Dojchin Doksim Doncho Dorotej
Dragan Dukdin Dushan
HB David and Danail are Hebrew/Biblical names (2/18).
SL Dejan, Deljan, Dobre, Dojchin, Doncho, Dragan, Dukdin and Dushan are Slavonic (8/18).
Gk Damaskin/Damaskinos, Damjan/Damianos, Despot/Despotes, Dimitar/Demetrios, Dimitrij/Demetrios, Diogen/Diogenes, Doksim/Eudoxios and Dorotej/Dorotheos are Greek names (8/18).

GJ GJerasim GJero GJoko GJore GJoshe
GJorgjija GJorche GJuro GJurchin GJurshin
HB: GJoshe/Joseph is Hebrew (1/10).
GK: GJerasim/Gerasimos, GJero/Ieron, GJoko/Georgios, GJore/Georgios, GJorgjija/Georgia, GJorche/Georgios, GJuro/Georgios and GJurchin/Georgios are Greek (9/10).


E Evgenij Elisie Erazmo Eremija Efimij
Emanuel
HB: Elisie, Eremija and Elisie are Hebrew/Biblical names (3/6).
GK: Evgenij/Eugenios, Erazmo/Erasmios and Efimij/Euthymios are Greek (3/6).


ZH ZHarko ZHelimir ZHivko ZHivorad
SL: ZHarko, ZHelimir, ZHivko and ZHivorad are Slavonic (4/4).

Z Zafir Zaharie Zdravko Zlatan Zlatko
Zograf Zoran
HB: Zaharie (1/7).
SL: Zdravko, Zlatan, Zlatko and Zoran are Slavonic (5/7).
GK: Zograf/Zographos (1/7).

DZ DZvezdan DZvonko
SL: DZvezdan and DZvonko are both Slavonic names (2/2).

I Ivan Ignat Ignatij Igor Ilarion
Ilija Inokentij Iraklij Irinej Isaija
Isidor Ice
HB: Ivan, Ilija and Isaija are Hebrew names (3/12).
LN: Ignat, Ignatij and Inokentij are Latin, extensively used in Byzantium (4/12).
Ice is indeterminate.
SL: Igor is Slavonic (1/12).
GK: Ilarion/Ilarion, Iraklij/Heracles, Irinej/Eirinaios and Isidor/Isidoros are Greek (4/12).

J Jakim Jakov Janaki Jane Joanikij
Joakim Jovan Jonko Jordan Josif
HB: Jakim, Jakov, Janaki, Jane, Joanikij, Joakim, Jovan, Jonko, Jordan, Josif are all Hebrew/Biblical names (10/10).
HB/GK: Janaki, though Hebrew/John has a very modern Greek loan form Giannakis/Little John, and Joanikij, though originaly Hebrew appears here in its hellenized version as Ioannikios.

K Kalistrat Kiprijan Kiril Kitan Kliment
Kozma Konstantin Kostadin Krale Krste
Kuzman
LN: Konstantin/Constantinus, Kostadin/Constantinus and Krale/Carolus are Latin (3/11)
SL: Kitan, Kuzman (2/11)
LT/SL: Krale, though Originaly Latin is also used in Slavonic languages as a name denoting King due to the legacy of Charlemagne (1/11).
GK: Kalistrat/Kallistratos, Kiprijan/Cyprianos, Kiril/Cyrillos, Kitan, Kliment/Klimis, Kozma/Kosmas, Krste/Christos are Greek (6/11).

L Lavrentij Lazar Lambe Leonid Leontie
Lefter Luka
HB: Lazar/Lazaros is Hebrew (1/7).
LN: Luka/Lucas and Lavrentij/Laurentius are Latin (2/7)
GK: Lefter/Eleutherios, Lambe/Lampes (from Charalampes), Leonid/Leonidas, Leontie/Leontios are Greek (4/7).

LJ LJube LJuben LJubomir LJupcho LJudmil
SL: LJube, LJuben, LJubomir, LJupcho, LJudmil are Slavonic (5/5).

M Makaraie Makedon Maksim Manoil Manol
Manojlo Marin Marko Matea Matej
Metodij Miladin Mile Mirko Miron
Miroslav Misail Mitan Mitre Mihail
Mladen Mojsej Mojsie
HB: Manoil/Emanuel, Manol/Emanuel, Mihail/Michael, Matea/Matthew, Matej/Matthew, Manojlo/Emanuel, Mojsej/Moses, Mojsie/Moses and Misail/Michael are Hebrew/Biblical names (9/23).
LT: Maksim(us), Marin(us), Marko/Marcus are Latin (3/23).
SL: Miladin, Mile, Mirko, Miroslav, Mitan and Mladen are Slavonic (6/23)
GK: Makaraie/Makarios, Makedon, Metodij/Methodios, Miron and Mitre/Mitros a diminutive of Demetrios are Greek (5/23)

N Najden Nase Naste Natanail Naum
Nace Nakje Neven Nedelko Nektarij
Noefit Nestor Nikanor Nikita Nikifor
Nikodim Nikola Novak Nove
HB: Natanail and Naum are Hebrew names (2/19).
SL: Najden, Nakje, Neven, Nedelko, Novak and Nove are Slavonic (6/19).
GK: Nace/Anastasios, Naste/Anastasios, Nektarij/Nektarios, Noefit/Neophytos, Nestor, Nikanor, Nikita(s) and Nikifor/Nikiphoros, Nikodim/Nikodemos and Nikola(os) are Greek (10/19).

O Ognen Ordan Orce
SL: Ognen, Ordan, Orce are Slavonic (3/3).

P Pavle Pandil Pane Pantelejmon Panche
Partenij Paskal Pahomij Pejko Petar
Petko Pimen Plamencho Polikarp Prodan
Projko Prokopij Prohor
LN: Pavle is Latin (1/18).
SL: Panche, Pejko, Petko, Plamencho, Prodan, Projko, Panche (7/18).
GK: Pane/Panagiotis, Pandil/Pantelis, Partenij/Parthenios, Paskal/Paschalis, Pahomij/Pachomios, Petar/Petros, Pimen, Polikarp(os), Prokopij/Prokopios, Prohor(ios) (10/18).

R Radovan Radomir Radoslav Razmo Rajko
Rangel Ranko Rastko Ratko Ratomir
Rafael Ristan Riste Rodoljub Romil
Ruse Rusomir
HB: Rafael/Raphael is Biblical (1/17)
LT: Romil/Romylus is Latin (1/17)
SL: Radovan, Radomir, Radoslav, Razmo, Rajko, Rangel, Ranko, Rastko, Ratko, Ratomir, Ristan, Riste, Rodoljub, Ruse, Rusomir are all Slavonic (15/17).
SL/GK: Riste is a derivative of the Greek Christos.

S Save Sazdan Samoil Sande Sarafil
Sare Sasho Svetislav Svetozar Svetolik
Svetomir Serafim Siljan Simon Slave
Slavoljub Slobodan Smile Solunche Sofronija
Spasen Spiridon Srebre Sreten Stamen
Stefan Stojan
HB Save/Sava, Samoil/Samuel, Serafim/Seraphim are Hebrew (3/27)
SL Sazdan, Sande, Sarafil, Sare, Sasho, Svetislav, Svetozar, Svetolik, Svetomir, Siljan, Slave, Slavoljub, Slobodan, Smile, Solunche, Spasen, Srebre, Sreten, Stamen, Stojan are Slavonic. (21/27)
SL/HB Stojan is a derivative of John, a Biblical name.
SL/GK Solunche is derived from the Greek name Thessalonike and Sasho is a Slavic diminutive of the greek name Alexandros.
GK Simon, Sofronija/Sopfronios, Spiridon, Stefan(os) are Greek (4/27)

T Tanas Tase Tashko Temelko Teodor
Teodosij Teofan Teofil Teofilakt Timotej
Tihomir Trajan Todor Trifun Trpe
LN: Trajan/Traianus is Latin (1/15)
SL: Tashko Temelko, Tihomir, Trpe are Slavonic (4/15)
GK: Tanas/Athanasios, Tase/Anastasios,Teodor/Theodoros, Teodosij/Theodosios, Teofan/Theophanes, Teofil/Theophilos, Teofilakt/Theophylactos, Timotej/Timotheos, Todor/Theodoros and Trifun/Triphon are Greek (10/15)

KJ KJire KJirko
SL: KJire and KJirko are Slavonic (2/2)

F Fidan Filimon Filip Firfo Flore
Fotij
LN: Flore is Latin (1/6).
SL: Fidan and Firfo are Slavonic (2/6).
GK: Filimon, Filip/Philippos and Fotij/Photios are Greek (3/6).

H Hranislav Hristijan Hristo Hristifor
SL: Hranislav is Slavonic (1/4)
GK: Hristijan/Christianos, Hristo/Christos and Hristifor/Christophoros are Greek names(3/4)

C Cane Cvetan
SL: Cane and Cvetan are Slavonic (2/2).

CH CHaslav CHedo CHedomir
SL: CHaslav, CHedo and CHedomir are all Slavonic (3/3).

SH SHane SHishko
SL: SHane and SHishko are both Slavonic (2/2).

There are a total of 292 names in this list, all common to male Slavomacedonians. Out of these names 42 are Biblical/Hebrew in origin, 18 are Latin in origin, 128 are Slavonic in origin and 103 are Hellenic/Greek in origin.
If we look at the numbers of each category we arrive at these percentages:
Hebrew/Biblical names: 42 names or 14.38%
Latin names: 18 names or 6.16%
Slavonic names: 128 names or 43.83%
Hellenic/Greek names: 103 names or 35.27%

Instead of trying to "prove" an unprovable and wholly fictitious Balkan and Macedonian autochthony, using the ancient Greek names of the ancient Macedonians as a fake spearhead (foolishly attempting to explain them as Slavonic in nature), the Skopian propagandists should at some point make an effort to gain some crumbs of their long ago lost seriousness by sitting down and trying to explain the flood of Hellenic names in their own onomastics: more than one in three names, fully 35.27% of Slavomacedonian names are Hellenic in origin.
Instead of trying of claiming (un-historically) that the two Byzantine monks from Thessalonike, in the imperial diplomatic service, the nobles Constantinos-Cyrillos and his brother Methodios were Slavs, they should try to be as grateful to the Greek nation (as all the other Slavs are, starting with the Russians), for the gift of Christianity and Graeco-Roman (Byzantine) civilization that their progenitors received from the Greeks. A whopping 35.27 of the Slavomacedonian male names, proves the point as to who influenced whom, after all.
As far as onomastics go, Greek names account for over 95% of the ancient Macedonian names, over 95% of modern Macedonian Greek names (the rest being Biblical and Latin) and over 35% of modern Slavomacedonian male names. Slavonic names account for almost 44% of all modern Slavomacedonian male names while there is not a single one, I repeat, NOT A SINGLE ONE Slavonic name in the modern Greek (Macedonian or other) onomastics whether ancient (that would be a historical joke) or in the modern Greek one.
Here we treated only the male Slavomacedonian names. We will revisit this issue again with the female names common among the Slavomacedonians of FYROM-Skopje. As for the last names, the fact that such well known Slavomacedonian names as Gruevski, Chervenkovski and Milososki rhyme perfectly well with Jaruzelski, Brzezinski, Lempitski, Moskovski, Malinovski and Sibirski tells us volumes about the closest linguistic relatives of the Slavomacedonians. I have not seen many Poles, Czecks, Slovaks or Russians claim descent from the Greek-speaking ancient Macedonians, after all: they are serious about their self esteem and very much comfortable and proud about their Slavic self-identity not to play havoc with it. If only their Yugoslavian (= south Slavic) cousins from Skopje would do the same, instead of acting like adopted Balkan orphans tragically searching for their long lost roots, the Macedonian name issue would not be here.
Pseudo-Macedonism, as we have proven time and again, is based on a Big Lie, a fake identity imposed on an esentially Slavonic nation; Slavonic in language and culture, though not necessarily in DNA or ethnic descent, which is mixed and it matters very little in identity anyway. Pseudo-Macedonism is a transformational travesty in the most literal sense of the world and this is not an insult, it is a political description.

13 comments:

  1. Interesting article. I don't know if as high as the 95% of ancient Macedonian names are Greek but they are definitely a majority. In a worst case, really pessimistic scenario (calculating from some name lists from treaties etc. and refusing to accept as Greek *any* name that might cause the least bit of embarrassment) it's a 65-75%.

    So, going by the "Hellenization" argument, the Macedonians (unlike any people before or after) are supposed to have borrowed the majority of their names from the Greek south sometime between the reigns of Alexander I and Alexander III the Great, a time span of 150+ years. At the same time, a Balkan Slavic people, so influenced by Byzantine-Christian civilization -indeed frequently being part of the Byzantine state- for more than a millennium have retained 44% Slavic names. It boggles the mind.

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  2. All article is rubbish. Author is so called expert, but he is only greek nationalistic megaphone.
    World begins with Greeks: joke!
    Everything is greek or have greek roots: joke.
    Biggest joke: they celebrate their concurers, Alexander the Great and his father Philip as their greatest kings and leaders.
    Don't forget, they concur greek land and greek tribes.
    Greeks can repeat one lie milion times, but it will never became truth.
    Face it: Your nationality is artificial (see 19-th century), your king is not greek (see 19-th century), with ancient greeks you have no relations, your country is broke because you are lazy (5-th broke in 120 years) and Alexander IS NOT GREEK!! This facts are taken from Greek OFFICIAL history.

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  3. Just crying that "All article is rubbish" is not convincing. It would be more productive if you would take a pen and use some brain substance and proved to the world that it is indeed rubish, if it is. As for "Everything is greek or have greek roots: joke"...why am I not getting this joke? If someone had written that Igor and Chedomir are Greek names, and not Slavic, that would have been a joke, saying that Nikodim is derived from Nikodemos, or Filip from Philippos etc is a fact. A joke would be if someone had written that the Slavomacedonians are related to the ancient Macedonians of Philip, Aristotle and Alexander...that would be an anachronistic (a "thousand year too late to be true") joke.
    As for Greeks celebrating their conquerors, the ancient Macedonians, a little history would not hurt Skopjan ignorance: The Spartans conquered Athens and the Thebans conquered the Spartans, and the Macedonians conquered the Thebans, and this is all part and parcel of ancient Greek history. get out of your cocoon and read some non-propaganda based books. You seem to undesrand some English, read some British and American history books. Try N.G.L.Hammond for a change.

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  4. Whats so important about the names? Allot of NON GREEKS have and had Greek Names, like the Illyrian king Bardhyllis and the Persian king Xerxes. What about the black people living in Greece baring greek names like Sofoklis Schortsanitis the basketball player ? Are they Ancient Greeks too ? What a sad bunch of Morons you Greeks are. U conquered Macedonian lands in 1913 and stole the history and archeological items from that region expelled the autochtone Macedonians living there in 1950s, you brought GYPSES that spoke greek from minor asia to live in Macedonian homes and for these Gypses you claim that are descendants of Alexander and they dont even have 1 % of Macedonian genes in them. Maybe some slavs came... so what... they mixed with Macedonians but thhey still have the Macedonian gene in them. Unlike the PONTIC Greeks that live in Macedonia now and claim to be Macedonian. I really feel sorry for the FAKE Greece created by Europe that is falling appart now. We shall see u in few years when you BEG for Macedonian citizenship because living here is cheaper and better.

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    Replies
    1. You start with two factually wrong statements: Xerxes, and Bardhylis you claim are Greek names, but they are most definitely NOT Greek. One is purely Illyrian and the other is purely Persian. Both Persian and Illyrian names are undecipherable in Greek. Sounding like Greek does not make Xerxes a Greek name, simply because it has no meaning in Greek and it has a perfectly good explanation in Persian: "Old Persian Xšaya-ṛšā is a compound with the verbal stem xšaya- “ruling” as the first element and the n-stem noun *ṛšan- “hero, man” as the second element; the original n-stem paradigm, however, is preserved only in the nominative form, whereas the other cases are remodeled analogically in one way or another (see Kent, p. 65a); with the primary meaning “ruling over heroes” it is close to Ved. kṣayád-vīra- “id.” with a similar formation." (http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/xerxes-1-name). Bardhylis was from Dardania, which is in your neck of the woods, Dardania being Kosovo and northern FYROM. Skopia is a Dardanian foundation. This makes you better candidates to claim the name Dardanians, rather than trying to pretend you are Macedonians. We do not know the exact etymology of the Illyrian name Barhylis but for sure it has no meaning in Greek, nor Slavic nor Albanian (Albanian having no connection to Illyrian), for that matter. Now that we cleared this fallacy, on which you base your thesis, let us reiterrate here that ALL Macedonian names, like Caranos, Amyntas, Alexandros, Philippos, Seleukos, Arrhidaios, Antiochos, Parmenion, Perdicas, Cleopatra, etc, etc, the list goes on, just read our history, are all purely Greek names: case closed. This why names do have their importance, to answer your first sentence: "What's so important about the names?". Names before the Christian (and later on the Islamic era) give us a clear indication of the language and the ethnic make up of a land or at least of the ruling class of the land. If you go to the Museum of Macedonia in Skopje, for example, which houses the marble statues and stelae from the old Greek and Paionian cities of Pelagonia, in the southern part of FYROM, you will not be able to read the names on the stones there, simply because there is nothing Slavic about them, they are all Greek names with some Paionian thrown in.

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  5. To get down to the emetic part of your statement, Sophoklis Schortsanitis, whom you mentioned, is not just any "black living in Greece". He is the son of a Greek father, a sailor, if I am not mistaken, and an African mother. African genes being more dominant than European genes he looks more African than European. He was born and raised in Kavala, he speaks Greek, he is Greek Orthodox and has a Greek culture and I assume a Greek identity too. Your other, equally racially motivated rumblings about "Gypsies" and "fake Greeks", deserve no answer, whatsoever. I will not argue with cryptonazis, whether in Greece, Western Europe, the US or in your part of Yugoslavia. FYROMIAN economy being wholly dependent on Greek investment and trade, your gleeful statements about the downfall of the Greek economy sounds to me like the boy who is joyfully cutting the branch on which he is sitting on. Greek GDP per capita still stands at $27600 (2011 est. - country comparison to the world: #49) while in FYROM it is $10,400 (2011 est. - country comparison to the world: 106). If the downfall of the Greek economy dows not bring FYROM to the abyss, then for sure the whipping up of ultra-nationalist chauvinism of the Slavomacedonian parties, especially Nikola Gruevski's governing VMRO-DPMNE, which is has brought hatred and irredentism against everyone around you (Greece, Bulgarias, Albanian) into hatred and discrimination against everyone inside the country, everyone not deemed paeudo-"Macedonian". The recent killings of Albanians by Slavomacedonians nationalist thugs or police and the counter-killings of Slavomacedonians by Albanian nationalist thugs, makes FYROM a candidate not for the place where everyone would "beg" to go in and get its citizenship "because living here is cheaper and better" but the place from which everyone would be running away from because the ethnic hatred (long fostered by pseudo-"Makedonist" hysteria and great-Albanian pseudo-"Illyrian"-ism) is forcing everyone to get on each other's throats, a sorry repetition of good old Yugofratricide, of Kosovar and Bosnian-Herzegovinan type. This is the tragedy of the Balkans and this is why we need to look at each other in the eye and start realizing that names do indeed make a difference: If you live in ancient Dardania and part of Paeonia and you pretend to be someone you are a (pseudo)-"Macedonian who has claims on all of Macedonia and you call us "fake Greeks", then you have to be ready to face the pseudo-"Illyrians" who claim that Bardhylis land is wrongly occupied by you, the "intruders" (although it is historically known that the Albanians came into FYROM much later than the Slavs, 350 to 400 years later), and then we all become actors in a theater of Balkan insanity with distorting mirrors and historically outdated costumes.

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  6. We are not Slavs, we are Macedonians 100% like Ancients Macedonians, 100% like Alexander the great like Aristotle like Olympia Etc.
    I am hating slavs.
    Makedonija belong to Macedonians, Slavs may leave out of Makedonija.

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  7. Macedonia:FYRoM Could End Name Dispute Today

    Denying the Macedonian-name it’s Greek-Hellenic credentials is the sole reason, the name-dispute between FYRoM and Greece has dragged-on for >2 decades. The UN, EU, USA, NATO and the International academic community place the Onus on FYRoM to end the name-dispute in a way that is mutually acceptable to both parties. The Onus is on FYRoM compromise, to find a proper more suitable name for country-name, nationality, language and ethnicity.

    FYRoM could end the name-dispute today, in an instant, at a stroke…if the ruling elite there recognized Alexander the Great as the Greek-King of Macedon and the ancient-Macedonians as Greek-speakers, with affinities and kinship-ties towards Greeks and Hellenism.

    FYRoM could end the name-dispute today, in an instant and at a stroke, if politicians there recognized the Macedonian-name as Greek-name, originating in Hellenic-world by Centum Greek-speaking Hellenic-peoples

    FYRoM could end the name-dispute today, in an instant and at a stroke, if the government there recognized and acknowledged, the Greek-Hellenic Identity of Macedonians from since the days of King-Karanus, 778-808 BC.

    FYRoM denies the Macedonians were ever Greek in the first place, they teach a revisionist pseudo-historical narrative to their own children, pupils and students. In the history books there, Alexander the Great becomes Aleksandar Veliki, the first Czar of the Slavs and ancient-Macedonians become proto-Slavs who spoke a Satem-Slavic, Serbianized-Bulgarian language FYRoM Slavs call Macedonian-language.

    FYRoM denies Macedonians were Greek to begin with, denies they spoke Centum Hellenic-language, denies they had strong kinship-ties and affiliations towards other Greeks and Hellenism, and denies, that Macedonians themselves self-Identified and self-determined Greek, from Dorian-Hellenic stock.

    FYRoM erases Macedonians Greek-Hellenic Identity in order to superimpose quasi-experimental Slavic-Identity on top of original Greek one. They do these things in bad taste, under crude and crass conditions, in ways that clash and conflict with all that is known about Macedonia…that Macedonians are self-determined Greeks from since >3 Millenniums.

    FYRoM could end the name-dispute today, right now, in an instant and at a stroke…if the politicians there stopped the pretense and the theatrical silliness that goes with promoting a quasi-experimental Slavic-Identity that takes from Hellenism something the Greeks are not willing to relinquish. If a Greek-Hellenic peoples have self-Identified like Macedonians for more than 3 Milleniums, should FYRoM respect that – You decide ?

    Those who know about Macedonia know: Macedonians have always been Greek-speaking Hellenic-peoples from since the days of King-Karanus 808-778 BC – a regional historical people-group of ethnic-Greek stock. Time for FYRoM to catch up!

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  8. When ones subconcious-Identity differs from the paternal-Identity of their ancestors – what medical term best describes such a condition…disociative-Identity disorder, perhaps!

    If I think of myself like Macedonian, descendant from Macedonians of old…but others around me, see me like South-Slav, descended from Slavic-tribes that settled Greek [Haemus] peninsula at top-end of 6th Century AD, what best describes me – the way I see myself, or the way others see me ?

    If I see myself like Macedonian, similar to Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity, but others around me see me like South-Slav, similar to Slovenians, Serbians, Croatians, Montenegrins and Bulgarians – How should third parties react to such a predicament ?

    If I see myself like Macedonian, living in Macedonia, speaking Macedonian…but others around me, see me like Bulgarian, living in Paeonia, speaking west-dialect of Bulgarian – In who’s reality should I adjust dimension!

    When those around me, and those around them, outwardly see me like South-Slav…when I myself, see my inner subconscious-self like Macedonian – in who’s reality should I adjust!

    When my inner subconscious-self image differs from the outward image others see me by…what medical-term best describes such a iatrogenic condition – Persoanlity disorder, perhaps!

    Whoever sees Yugoslavians like Macedonians, Paeonia like Macedonia, is deficient in geographic knowledge, demographic knowledge and historical knowledge…and suffers from same condition as FYRoM – Greek Envy Identity Crisis!

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  9. The more inside themselves they retreat, the more they find to confuse them. Delving into their recent past, the peoples of FYRoM group with South-Slavs…Bulgarians to be the nearest. Not impressed with that, they brush away any notion of relatedness to them to delve further back to a time before the Bulgars, before the Slavs even – to pre-Bulgar times and pre-Slavic times.

    The more inside themselves they delve, the more they find confusing. Like, why do they speak Bulgarian but call their own language Macedonian-language…like why do they group with South-Slavs but call themselves Macedonians. Macedonians are Haemus native whilst Bulgars and South-Slavs are not. This is confusing, even to the scholars of genes, languages and people-dynamics.

    The more inside themselves they retreat, the more they find to confuse themselves. You see, before the Bulgars came to the Haemus, there was only Byzantium…and before the Slavs, the same. Pre-Bulgar times were times when Greek-speakers called themselves Romioi, Eastern-Romans. Pre-Slavic times, the same. The language FYRoM used before the Bulgars came, and before the Slavs came, was Centum-Greek.

    The more they investigate themselves…like delve more into the makings of their Name, their Identity, their Nationality, their Language, their Ethnicity, their History, their Heritage – The mist of confusion clears to reveal the real reason for their being – to take Macedonia for Slavdom. When they delve hard, back enough, they find that the Idea to create Macedonians from South-Slavs was born during imperialistic Tzarist times, then the Idea migrated to the Pan-Slavic era, migrated again to the Communist era, when a Croat Slav created for the first ever, Macedonia in the Slavic world. Then Serbs Serbianized the Bulgarian-language and called it Macedonian-language. The Slovenes, Montenegrins, Bulgarians and the rest, accepted the creation of a Macedonian people-group within Slavdom. For the duration of the Cold War era, the Idea lay dormant until Communism dies. The Idea resurfaces again with a vengeance when Yugoslavia expires spawning 6 new Republics from one Yugoslavic Federation.

    The more FYRoM delves into the makings of it’s existence, the more they find out, they are not Macedonians at all…at least, not in the Greek sense of that word! FYRoM South-Slavs cannot be Macedonians, the same Macedonians that exist in the Greek [Haemus] peninsula from since the days of King Karanus, first King of Macedon 778-808 BC. A distinction is required to differentiate between Slavic-Macedonians and Hellenic-Macedonians – This is what Greece asks for, some clarification to waylay the opportunism and to quell the confusion.

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  10. History wont be kind to FYRoM. Historians shall tell the FYRoM story from anti-Hellenic, anti-Western perspectives. History shall record FYRoM as that minor Slavic country that when acquired independence, briefly posed a cultural threat to the Western worlds cultural foundation and historical narrative. The concise history of FYRoM will plot it’s beginnings from Paeonia to Vardaska, to latest current name, Republic of Macedonia.

    Demography wont be kind to FYRoM. Demographers shall tell the FYRoM story from anti-Hellenic, anti-Western perspectives. Demography shall record that minor Slavic country FYRoM was once, the autochthnous Haemus Kingdom of Paeonia. Paeonians were Hellenized on interaction with Macedonians, forever looked upon as brother-peoples to Greeks going forward, until the Slavs settled the Haemus, 6th Century AD.

    Philology wont be kind to FYRoM. Philologists shall tell the FYRoM story from anti-Hellenic, anti-Western perspectives. Philology shall record FYRoM as that minor Slavic country that when established independence, scripted itself a national historical narrative that was so anti, so anti-Hellenic, so anti-mainstream, it posed a cultural threat to the long-established mainstream historical narrative of the West.

    The FYRoM story is double-edged in that it exposed 2 root sources from whence anti-Hellenic, anti-Western propaganda emanated…one internal and western, the other one
    external, non-western. No more shall be said here because both sources have been compromised. Nobody of worth, from politics or the media talks about Greeks, Greece or Hellenism in negative tone the way they used to, like in the frenzy days of heightened anti-Hellenic activity. Both sources have been squelched. One has disbanded, and the other one gone underground. The point to make here is this one: FYRoM was used by both to discredit Greeks in order to undermine Hellenism. Anti-Hellenic 5th columnist mind-architects, in positions of power and influence attempt to elevate Celto-Germanic history, given new Europe a historical starting point from 8th Century AD. The age of enlightenment was to begin from common European ancestor Karalos Magnos, not from the ancient Greeks or Romans.

    The most noteworthy observations to take from all of this, is this one: FYRoM’s most potent virulent propaganda against Greeks, Greece and Hellenism, here I mean the academic supplementary materials, were not written by homegrown FYRoM South-Slavs themselves, nor their diasporas…Black Athena is prime example, Paleolithic Continuity Theory is another example, Veneti Builders of Europe is yet another example. Remember this, Afrocentric Theories, Turanid Theories and Slavist Theories, timely published to bismerch and undermine Hellenic cultural contributions to world history were not written by Africans, Turkics or Slavics – The authors belong to other ethnes, they belong to those 2 root sources listed [4th paragraph] above.

    Those who aided minor Slavic country FYRoM, to spread propaganda against Greece did it for higher ulterior motive. So the FYRoM story is sad story, one of being used and abused. The FYRoM cause is spent, there is no more use for FYRoM anymore. Greeks successfully thwarted each and every attempt to rubbish their history. Friends of Greeks, Phil-Hellenes and Grecophiles successfully defended Hellenism, Hellenic cultural contributions to development of Western society. Every anti-Hellenic action invokes reaction, until the next one.

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  11. Subject : http://derstandard.at/2000007266606/Mazedonien-Kompromiss-im-Namensstreit-mit-Griechenland-greifbar
    Tangible compromise in the name dispute with Greece: Macedonia
    Adelheid Cubs
    October 24, 2014, 13:33
    "Republic of Upper Macedonia" to be official designation

    After years of unsuccessful mediation attempts by the UN mediator Matthew Nimetz-in the name dispute between Greece and Macedonia there are signs of a compromise. Greece wants for years the state name Macedonia does not accept, because it is afraid of other territorial claims of the northern neighboring country. Therefore Macedonia called still "Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" (FYROM).


    Nimetz's proposal now is to call the state officially "Republic of Upper Macedonia", the language as "Macedonian" and the citizens as "people of Upper Macedonia: citizens of Macedonia" to refer to.
    Residents designation further controversial

    So far, the Macedonian government has the name "Republic of Upper Macedonia" rejected and wanted to accept only "Upper Republic of Macedonia". According to former diplomat Igor Janev the government is now ready but to the Nimetz compromise. This goes back to an initiative of President Gjorge Ivanov says Janev the STANDARD. There was only a minor problem, namely the name of the citizens. Skopje insist on the simple term "Macedonian". Janev but is confident that this could be accepted by Greece. "Only a small involvement of the EU can solve the problem," said the diplomat. (Adelheid Cubs, derStandard.at, 10/24/2014)

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